Interview conducted and translated from Hebrew by Frédéric Sroussi
Tribune Juive: You were born under the name Ayman Abou Soubouch in Gaza, in the city of Khan Younès. Both your family and your school education taught you to hate Jews and Israel. Then one day, at the sight of an Israeli soldier wearing tefillin and praying, your soul was shaken, as you told me, and you decided — you, a young Muslim child from Gaza — that you wanted to become Jewish. Your wish eventually came true, but only after many years and countless ordeals that led you into the prisons of Hamas and Fatah terrorists, where you were tortured.
You also wrote a remarkable book recounting the epic moments of your life, From Gaza to Tel Aviv (available in Hebrew, English, German and Spanish, though unfortunately not yet in French). You personally knew some of Hamas’s worst figures, who were your neighbors: Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Deif and Yahya Ayyash, known as “The Engineer.”
Tell us what you felt when you saw that Jewish soldier praying.
Dor Shachar: When I saw that soldier with what I thought were ropes wrapped around his head and arm, something moved inside my soul. But I didn’t dare ask anyone what he was doing or what it was. I was only a child. I also wondered why he was rocking back and forth while praying. I felt something deep within me, but I didn’t understand it. Only later did I understand the meaning of the mitzvah of tefillin, which I myself observe today since converting to Judaism.
T.J.: You grew up in a very violent family and society, and endured severe abuse from your father and grandfather, who even forced you to eat sheep excrement mixed with sand.
D.S.: That’s how it is in all families in Gaza. It’s normal there: beatings, insults — it’s everyday life. The day you don’t get beaten is the day you wonder what’s wrong.
T.J.: So violence is cultural.
D.S.: Exactly. It’s cultural.
T.J.: If a Gazan woman speaks to a man who is not part of her immediate family, even if he is a relative, she may be locked up and receive one hundred lashes. The Quran commands it.
T.J.: What is terrible are those “Palestinian” women who proudly say they are happy their sons died while committing terrorist attacks against Jews.
D.S.: When a terrorist murders a Jew and is killed while carrying out the attack, the Palestinian mother ululates with joy. When a Jewish mother loses her son in war, her life is shattered forever. That’s a huge difference.
T.J.: You grew up among infamous neighbors such as Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Deif and Yahya Ayyash, all major Hamas leaders. Can you tell us about the day you saw Yahya Sinwar in the streets of Khan Younès?
D.S.: He beheaded several Palestinians accused of collaborating with Israel. At that time Jews still lived in Gaza, in Gush Katif, and came to shop in Gaza markets.
I saw many heads rolling, and Sinwar smiled while doing it. He was covered in blood, his knife covered in blood, and afterward Gazans beat the corpses of those Palestinians. That is exactly what they did to Jews on October 7. The same story.
When we went to the mosque, the sheikh would teach us after prayer and say: “The greatest thing one can do for Allah is to kill Jews and Christians.”
That is exactly what is happening in the world. They kill Jews and Christians. Children are raised that way.
One day, leaving the mosque, I heard screams of “Allahu Akbar!” I ran to see what was happening. One “collaborator” was having his leg cut off, another was tortured with electricity, another burned alive, another corpse paraded on a car. And what did they do to Jews on October 7? The same thing.
The Israeli hostages who returned experienced this. Those who came back have begun speaking about it.
T.J.: You learned hatred of Jews and Christians in UNRWA schools, correct?
D.S.: Of course. But let’s stop calling that “education.” I also learned from my family that Jews and Christians must be killed. My father and grandfather repeated it constantly. That is the “path of Islam”: teaching people to kill the “infidels.”
T.J.: In the West we see Muslims trying to impose Islam in a softer way, using fear and accusations of “Islamophobia” against anyone who resists them.
D.S.: Islamists must be thrown out of city halls if they have entered them. Out. They are trying to take control of the West.
I’ll go even further: an Islamist who smiles at you and says he wants your good is more dangerous than one who openly says he wants to kill you. At least in the second case, you are warned.
They also try to conquer the world by presenting themselves as victims and oppressed people.
When I go to schools to tell my story, I warn children about the danger of Islamists and tell them to stay away from them as fast as possible. Their goal is to turn non-Muslims into Muslims.
In reality, they give you a choice: “Either you become Muslim, or we kill you. What do you choose?”
I want to say one thing: the Quran is the same everywhere — in Gaza, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Yemen, Qatar.
T.J.: So you make no distinction between Islamism and Islam?
D.S.: Exactly. Does an extremist Muslim have a different Quran from a “normal” Muslim? No.
I also believe the most dangerous country in the world is Qatar. Doha gives money to Iran to kill Jews, to Gaza to kill Jews, and so on.
Let us remember that Hamas leaders are based in Qatar. On October 7, Ismail Haniyeh was in Qatar celebrating the massacre of Jews with other Hamas leaders.
T.J.: They even prayed in front of the broadcast images.
D.S.: Qatar is playing games with us.
T.J.: What did you think when Mossad chief David Barnea traveled to Qatar to negotiate the release of Israeli hostages?
D.S.: We live in a country of madmen. Why send the head of Mossad to negotiate with the main accomplices of the October 7 massacres?
T.J.: You mean Israel is naïve?
D.S.: Completely. We fought in Gaza, but we did not do what had to be done there. Hamas still exists, and unfortunately Israel does not know how to explain to the world what is happening.
We must explain that the problem is not only Hamas. There is also Islamic Jihad, Fatah, Tanzim, the Waqf — all participated one way or another in murdering Jews.
Those who murdered the Bibas children and their mother were Fatah mujahideen.
Look at the hostage videos: green stands for Hamas, black for Islamic Jihad, red for Fatah, white for the Mujahideen.
People keep saying only “Hamas, Hamas,” but all those terrorist groups participated in the October 7 massacres.
The world does not want to understand. People think Israel’s enemies in Gaza are ten thousand or a hundred thousand. No. All Gazans are enemies of Israel and want its destruction. I was born among them. I know them better than anyone.
Dor Shachar, thank you.
Interview by Frédéric Sroussi